| | The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread | |
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+9OverlordJ silckenSoul uncertainHavoc tekkenfreak4 Metafiction Ralte royalPawn Sandstriker JakeMorph 13 posters | |
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OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:58 pm | |
| - Ralte wrote:
- Maybe Marshall is the right way to go for me... Does an Aura also benefit the carrier of the Aura or only the allies?
And the way you describe the mount I would probably keep it.
I also found this in this http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1151316:
Elf Paladin Substitution Levels (RW, p 155) 1st level: Ranged Smite 3rd level: Aura of Freedom (+4 bonus to saves vs Enchantment), lose aura of courage 5th level: Unicorn Mount
Does that also count for an Half-Drow? Yes, unless they specifically say that they don't, all things that affect "your allies" also affect you, because by DnD rules, a character counts as their own ally. And sure, as I said, some poeple love the mount, some people trade it away. In any case, you won't have to decide before you reach level 5 anyways, so you have still a lot of time left if you change your mind. And no, first of all you are a Drow, not a Half-Drow, (lesser) Drow is just a version that is used if you want Drow without LA, they are NOT a different kind of Drow. There are no Drow in the world that are not (lesser), since we decided to use that rule. More importantly though, while Drow count as a type of Elf in some cases, they are a subcategory so different from other Elves, that class related things that apply to Elves do NOT apply to Drow. Drow have their OWN racial substitute levels for certain classes. Also, just in case you are curious, it also doesn't count for Half-Elfs, they ALSO have their own racial substitution levels for certain classes. For example, there are racial substitution levels both for Drow and for Half-Elf fighters. Oh, and just to be clear, racial substitution levels are always optional, just in case you were wondering | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:35 am | |
| - OverlordJ wrote:
- And here it is:
Okay, so, if you want to be a scout, you will want to be stealthy, so hide and move silently, and good at spot, listen and perhaps search. For Swift Ambusher, you also want to be good at atleast tumble. You are obviously starting with a level as Rogue. That is definitely a good thing to start with, since it gives you a lot of skillpoints. However, you should consider taking some alternative class features. That is, features that allow you to replace one thing your class can do with something else. One example of that is obviously the Martial Rogue variant Mather is using, that loses the Sneak Attacks but gains the Fighter bonus feats. If you want to Sneak Attack a lot, you might want to consider using either Penetrating Strike or Death's Ruin, both trading away your Trapsense in order to be able to deal at least some sneak attack damage to some things normally immune to sneak attack damage. Please note that this makes you in no way worse at finding and disarming traps, it just makes you a little less protected against them if you FAIL to disarm them. Also note that, unless Mather decides to trade away his Trapsense as well, he could play the role of the trap remover guy in the group, if you were worried about getting hurt by traps you failed to disable. Note that it only helps when you are in melee, ranged attacks won't benefit from it, so if you want to focus on ranged attacks, you might decide to skip this option.
Scouts have some neat tricks you will gain by taking up to four levels in it, more is not really giving you anything if you want to be a swift ambusher. Level 1: Trapfinding is obviously pointless to you, unless you decide to trade it away for something else. You also get to add 1d6 damage to all your attacks during any round in which you moved at least 10 ft. There are restrictions who can be affected by that damage but simply said, most things you can't sneak attack you also can't skirmish against. still, it's a neat bonus. Scouts also get 8 skill points, just like Rogues, which is very nice and you obviously get the +2 to Reflex saves, which makes your reflexes even better. Level 2: You gain a +1 bonus on Fortitude Saves and on Initiative, as long as you are wearing Light or no armor. You gain Uncanny Dodge, if you don't have already, which gets upgraded to Improved Uncanny Dodge if you DO have it already, also, all levels in classes that grant you improved uncanny dodge stack for the level of the opposing rogue needed to sneak attack you. You could of course decide to trade one version away for an alternative class feature, Disruptive Attack is a really nice option for archery based Rogues to deal with some of their enemies. You also get +1 BAB and a +1 on Reflex saves. Level 3: Fast Movement is nice, unless you can get something better, but still, never bad to have. Your Skirmish now gives you a bonus to your AC when you've moved, which helps you survive in melee, if you need to go into melee. Trackless Step is a really nice ability, which makes it harder for enemies to track you, perfect if you want to be sneaky for a longer time. You also get your normal +1 BAB and +1 to your weak saves. This is the minimum number of levels you HAVE to take in order to be allowed to take Swift Ambusher. Level 4: You get a bonus feat, chosen from a small list, most of which are more or less crappy BUT Swift Ambusher is later added to that list, so if you take the fourth level in Scout you can use it to take that as a bonus, which is nice. You also get your normal +1 bonus to BAB and Reflex saves. Level 5: You get Evasion, which Rogues get at level 2 and your Skirmish improves, which it also does if you take levels as Rogue, thanks to Swift Ambusher. You get no increase in BAB or any saves at this level, which is why you shouldn't take level 5.
So in other words, you should take either three or four levels as Scout.
I also want to say a couple things about the Swordsage. Since you have unusually good Wisdom for a Rogue, which gives you a nice bonus on Spot and Listen, fitting your role of a scout, Swordsage is an especially good choise to you.
Swordsages are one of the three "Martial Manuver" classes, classes from the Tome of Battle that can get special tricks and stances. These alone are usually reason enough to take some levels in one of them. One Stance gives you +2d6 bonus on Sneak Attacks, for example, which is very well liked for many Sneak Attack characters.
Level 1: A +1 bonus to Initiative (which stacks which the one you get from Scouts) and Weapon Focus with multiple weapons, depending on the Disciplin you chose. Sadly, the Shortbow can't be a weapon for that, though the Dagger can. You get a +2 on Both Reflex and Will saves, though you only get 6+Int skill points, so you'll get two less skill points, which is a bit of a bummer. Level 2: This is the earliest where you could possibly get that stance that gives you +2d6 Sneak Attack damage. It also allows you to add your Wisdom Mod to your AC as long as you are wearing light armor, which is at least a nice +2 in your case. You get a +1 on BAB and on both Reflex and Wisdom saves.
Depending on when you take those two levels, it could also give you such abilities and short ranged teleportation and dealing ability damage to enemies, which can be great if your sneak attacks fail to hurt them.
Besides those you should probably mainly take levels as Rogue, though some PrCs might be worth considering.
The Nightsong Enforcer and Nightsong Infiltrator are both PrCs that are more or less easy to enter and that offer good teamwork benefits, either for, well, fighting or sneaking and infiltrating. Most people prefer the Enforcer, because they are easier to enter and, arguably, better, though noone would complain if you want to take some levels as the Infiltrator.
The Spymaster is more for a Spy kind of character, one who impersonates and stuff. I just thought I should meantion it just in case. Plus, it's one of the few PrCs where the number of levels is NOT dividable by five. Plus, I LOVE the capstone ability, Deep Cover is brilliant, though perhaps more so as an immensly evil tool for a GM then for a player.
Thief-Acrobat as well as things like the Exemplar or perhaps the Dungeon Delver are options if you especially want to focus on some of your skills, though I am not sure if they'd be the best options for you.
The Assassin is of course one of the classic and still surprisingly good options for a Rogue, but we already said, it'd be pretty OOC for Drea. Plus, you literally HAVE to be evil. There is a joke version that is the same as the Assassin but Non-chaotic instead of Evil, but not only was that released as an April Fools joke, it also wouldn't help you since you ARE chaotic.
Another classic is the Shadowdancer, which requires some shitty feats and some points in Perform (Dance) but if you do decide to go for it, it offers you an incredibly helpful ability, hide in plain sight, with the first level already. The second level would only be worth it if you for some reason traded Evasion away, else it is okay at best. After that it becomes kind of weird, since it gives you some summoning abilities, some illusions and even short ranged teleportation, though if you want that, I'd advice going for the Swordsage instead.
- Spoiler:
ok, so: "hide and move silently, and good at spot, listen and perhaps search" got all of these, yeah. And added Tumble like you suggested.
"If you want to Sneak Attack a lot, you might want to consider using either Penetrating Strike or Death's Ruin, both trading away your Trapsense in order to be able to deal at least some sneak attack damage to some things normally immune to sneak attack damage. Please note that this makes you in no way worse at finding and disarming traps, it just makes you a little less protected against them if you FAIL to disarm them. Also note that, unless Mather decides to trade away his Trapsense as well, he could play the role of the trap remover guy in the group, if you were worried about getting hurt by traps you failed to disable. Note that it only helps when you are in melee, ranged attacks won't benefit from it, so if you want to focus on ranged attacks, you might decide to skip this option."
Firstly, does this mean you can't do a ranged sneak attack? (In that case, I'm focusing on melee attacks instead.) Secondly, what are Penetrating Strike/Death's Ruin? I mean, where do I put them on the sheet and stuff? Thirdly, what's the difference between them?
"So in other words, you should take either three or four levels as Scout.
I also want to say a couple things about the Swordsage. Since you have unusually good Wisdom for a Rogue, which gives you a nice bonus on Spot and Listen, fitting your role of a scout, Swordsage is an especially good choise to you."
So, taking levels in Rogue, Scout AND Swordsage is a thing you can do? Are there any drawbacks 'cause it sounds like levels in so many different classes would be the sort of thing that comes with drawbacks.
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| | | Guest Guest
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:38 pm | |
| Usually there'd be an exp penalty for each additional class, but OJ said we aren't doing those. |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:58 pm | |
| You can theoretically take a level in a new class everytime you gaina new level. Such a character would be pretty weak though. Also, to be precise, if you have more then one level more in a base class then in all other base classes, not counting your races favoured class, you'd get an XP penalty, normally. Which I think is stupid. One thing you need to keep an eye on while multiclassing is that I DON'T use the "fractal" BAB and Saves rule. Simply put, that means that if you aren't careful, multiclassing a lot can cost you some points in BAB and make your weak saves even weaker. It does also make your strong saves even stronger though, so, it has some pros and cons. For example, if you take 3 levels in Wizard and then 3 levels in Cloistered Cleric and then 3 levels in Mystic Theurge (A PrC that basically combines Arcane and Divine spellcasting) you end up with with an amazing +9 to Will saves just from your class alone, which is much more then you usually have at level 9. On the other hand, you'll end with a BAB of only +3, which is even worse then what a Wizard has at that level. And if you'd keep multiclassing, it'd only get worse, probably. So yeah, there are a couple things you need to keep an eye out for, but XP penalties are not one of them, because I never understood why you'd have trouble getting better at one class, just because you aren't good enough at another class. "Yeah, I have trouble focusing on becoming a better Bard because I'm only a little bit angry, I need to get angrier before I can become better at singing (Barbarian/Bard)" "Boy, I started out as a trained Fighter, I even went to a college, but now that I am a proud Knight for the forces of Law and Good, I feel I need to learn some more basic fighting, before I can deepen my connection to the cosmic forces of Law and Good (Fighter/Paladin)" Plus, I am not found of the racial affinity to certain classes Oh, and you CAN do ranged Sneak Attacks BUT, only on a range of 30 ft AND since you can't flank someone without being in melee, you can only do that sneak attack when the enemy is denied their DEX bonus to AC, like being surprised or you being invisible. So Ranged Sneak Attacks only work when they are denied their DEX to AC, melee Sneack Attacks can also be triggers simply by flanking. As for details on Penetrating Strike and Deaths Ruin, they are ACF, they replace a class featue you'd normally get, Trapsense in this case, and give you a different ability instead. You write them down at the same place where you write your other class features down. Deaths Ruin is from Complete Champions - Description:
Death’s Ruin You can channel the power of your faith when making sneak attacks against undead. Level: 3rd. Replaces: This benefit replaces the trap sense class feature, including trap sense bonuses gained at higher levels of the rogue class. Benefit: You can make sneak attacks against undead creatures. However, you roll only one-half your normal sneak attack dice (rounded down) when determining bonus damage for such attacks. This is a supernatural ability.
Death's Ruin has the advantage that you CAN make ranged Sneak Attacks with it but ONLY against Undead. Penetrating Strike is from Dungeonscape - Description:
Sadly, I can't simply copy paste that from my Dungeonscape PDF but simply put, if you are flanking an enemy that is immune to Sneak Attacks, you CAN Sneak Attack them, but again, ONLY if you are flanking them.
So you see, Penetrating Strike only works for Melee, but works against EVERYTHING that is immune to Sneak Attacks, Death's Ruin can work with ranged attacks but ONLY against Undead. | |
| | | Ralte
Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-12-19 Location : Land of Fun & Genetic improbalities
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:03 pm | |
| Ops…^^” How embarrassing. I confounded “half” with “lesser”.
Otherwise: Are we ready soon? Can’t we simply start to play? I mean let us figure out where everybody wants to start and why they want to form a group and let us play. We can figure out details and multi-classing along the way. “All theory is grey” so let us do some practice. Let us start our session! | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:18 am | |
| Things that need to be done before we can start to play:
We need a reason why Drea joins. Everyone needs to be sure about having finished their character sheets.
Knowing what you are aiming for is often helpful with deciding what options to take.
And yeah, they are called (lesser) Drow but in the game they will just be called Drow, the lesser is just so that the players and the GM remember that it's the variant version and not the standart version.
Half-Drow ARE actually a playable race, though they are basically just Half-Elfs with Darkvision. | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:40 am | |
| I'm also unsure if I want to stick with ranger, I'm looking at other options and if I change then I'm going to need to change my entire sheet in terms of abilities and skills | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:49 am | |
| "We can figure out details and multi-classing along the way. “All theory is grey” so let us do some practice. Let us start our session!" I've never heard that 'all theory is grey' thing. Also what OJ said. @ the first one:"Maybe with her good ears Drea could overhear talk of some Bad Thing people want to do to us and warn us about it?" "Hmm, since the group is in the Cheap Ale at some point, maybe some of the people of the slums would try to rob the group and you've overhear that and warn them?" I agreed to this, I thought that meant we've got a reason. (And a reason for her to bother with warning them would be... well, she doesn't really care about the group much yet, so she's got a thing against those particular people of the slums at the moment. Maybe they tried to rob HER earlier? Not sure.) @ the second one: "Yeah, I have trouble focusing on becoming a better Bard because I'm only a little bit angry, I need to get angrier before I can become better at singing" well, being pissed is where the INSPIRATION comes from, the anger fuels the music "Oh, and you CAN do ranged Sneak Attacks BUT, only on a range of 30 ft AND since you can't flank someone without being in melee, you can only do that sneak attack when the enemy is denied their DEX bonus to AC, like being surprised or you being invisible. So Ranged Sneak Attacks only work when they are denied their DEX to AC, melee Sneack Attacks can also be triggers simply by flanking." OK, so melee focus it is, then. Is there anything I need to change on the sheet for that? "As for details on Penetrating Strike and Deaths Ruin, they are ACF, they replace a class featue you'd normally get, Trapsense in this case, and give you a different ability instead. You write them down at the same place where you write your other class features down." So... feats? OK. Penetrating Strike sounds better, both meta-wise and because Drea isn't really the type to ~channel the power of her faith~. And about replacing Dodge: I checked the handbook you linked, would Craven be good? Also if i'm focusing on melee I should probably go with something that isn't Point Blank Shot, too... Weapon Finesse? | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:04 pm | |
| - All theory is grey comes from Goethe's Faust.:
As for your reason, oh yeah, sorry, I forgot about that. Looks like we almost got everything then. Melee focus is good, though you should at least not totally discard your ranged options, they can be helpful just in case. Anyways, I don't think you need to change anything on your sheet, but I noticed you forgot to add the saves bonus you get from your class. Yeah, most people prefer Penetrating Strike unless you KNOW you will only run into lots of Undead. Craven is a very good but very tricky feat. For one, it is one of the few feats that come with a downside and it's a downside quite a few people find annoying. It also has a flavor that I'm not sure would fit your character. Basically, it's either that your character is so paranoid about others that they've become especially good at backstabbing, 'cause they can't harm you if you kill them first OR they are so incredibly good at backstabbing that they've become paranoid about how others might backstab them. And as for Weapon Finess, right now it'd give you a +3 to hit, so I'd say that sounds like a pretty good deal. So unless you plan to take levels as Swashbuckler, I'd say go for it. However, Weapon Finess requires a BAB of at least +1, so you can't take it yet, you'll have to wait at least untill level 3. Also, if you really want to go the melee way, you should consider taking Shadow Blade eventually. Maybe something like taking your fifth level as Swordsage 1 and then taking Shadow Blade at level 6 could work. | |
| | | royalPawn
Posts : 1880 Join date : 2013-07-12 Age : 28 Location : B4
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Mon Mar 23, 2015 8:54 pm | |
| I just need to remake my spell list but that might take some time and I have a really busy week. But I assume that if we're playing this week, it'd be in the weekend, so I should be able to get it done in time. (Though it seems there's a good chance not everyone will be ready by then, especially if Sand decides to join.) Though I also reread the rules on magic and I have a few questions: 1) Do I get all the bonus spell slots I get for high Int, or only those for levels I would already have 1 or more slots for normally? - Quote :
- A domain wizard automatically adds each new domain spell
to her list of known spells as soon as she becomes able to cast it 2) Does this quote mean the spell is added to my spellbook, or will I have to write it in myself (and pay the appropriate cost)? 3) If the answer to these two questions is the first option for both, does that mean I would be able to cast the 2nd to 4th level spells of my Domain from the beginning? EDIT: Also, do the lanterns have a mechanism to light them or do you need something else for that?
Last edited by royalPawn on Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total | |
| | | Ralte
Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-12-19 Location : Land of Fun & Genetic improbalities
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:00 pm | |
| - OverlordJ wrote:
- Things that need to be done before we can start to play:
Everyone needs to be sure about having finished their character sheets. Is mine ready? http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=758320 - OverlordJ wrote:
- And yeah, they are called (lesser) Drow but in the game they will just be called Drow, the lesser is just so that the players and the GM remember that it's the variant version and not the standart version.
Half-Drow ARE actually a playable race, though they are basically just Half-Elfs with Darkvision. Ah, good to know, thank you. - Shaula wrote:
- "We can figure out details and multi-classing along the way.
“All theory is grey” so let us do some practice. Let us start our session!"
I've never heard that 'all theory is grey' thing. Also what OJ said. It is a german saying. “Grau ist alle Theorie” means that a theory doesn’t get you results, only a practical try can give you useful results. - Shaula wrote:
- @ the first one:"Maybe with her good ears Drea could overhear talk of some Bad Thing people want to do to us and warn us about it?"
"Hmm, since the group is in the Cheap Ale at some point, maybe some of the people of the slums would try to rob the group and you've overhear that and warn them?" I agreed to this, I thought that meant we've got a reason. (And a reason for her to bother with warning them would be... well, she doesn't really care about the group much yet, so she's got a thing against those particular people of the slums at the moment. Maybe they tried to rob HER earlier? Not sure.) Sounds good in my ears. Urmelena would warn them in any case because Lawful Good Paladin. So, in that case maybe they could have tried to rob Urmelena too or not. Of course it isn’t easy to rob a battle wise Paladin. Could be of course only a few guys the first time and they come back with more people of their gang to rob this time somebody with more success just to be safe. - Shaula wrote:
- @ the second one: "Yeah, I have trouble focusing on becoming a better Bard because I'm only a little bit angry, I need to get angrier before I can become better at singing"
well, being pissed is where the INSPIRATION comes from, the anger fuels the music Anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. So, a good Bard will take the path of Kurt Cobain? I don’t think that this would be a wise career choice. - Shaula wrote:
- "Oh, and you CAN do ranged Sneak Attacks BUT, only on a range of 30 ft AND since you can't flank someone without being in melee, you can only do that sneak attack when the enemy is denied their DEX bonus to AC, like being surprised or you being invisible. So Ranged Sneak Attacks only work when they are denied their DEX to AC, melee Sneack Attacks can also be triggers simply by flanking."
I always thought that at least snipers are specialized in doing ranged sneak attacks with their weapons. | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:32 pm | |
| I AM DONE
everyone feel free to marvel and the glorious warrior that is wanderer (please no genuflection its been a long day, no no please no autographs i left my good quill at home)
oj says there is a problem with the hide skill but he knows what it should be and it looks fine for me so i dont care and am not gonna try and fix it | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:42 am | |
| - royalPawn wrote:
- 1) Do I get all the bonus spell slots I get for high Int, or only those for levels I would already have 1 or more slots for normally?
You only get bonus spell slots for spells you have access to. Some classes get access to a spelllevel before getting any spellslots but that's marked with a 0. So unless you get that, then you don't get any bonus spell slots. - Quote :
-
- Quote :
- A domain wizard automatically adds each new domain spell
to her list of known spells as soon as she becomes able to cast it 2) Does this quote mean the spell is added to my spellbook, or will I have to write it in myself (and pay the appropriate cost)? You will not have to spend money on it, but just like the free spells you get each level, you will have to write them in your spellbook, it just doesn't cost you time or money to do so. - Quote :
- 3) If the answer to these two questions is the first option for both, does that mean I would be able to cast the 2nd to 4th level spells of my Domain from the beginning?
The answer to neither was the first option, so it should be clear that the answer to this is no. - Quote :
- EDIT: Also, do the lanterns have a mechanism to light them or do you need something else for that?
You need something seperate, usually flint and steel, though there are Tindertwigs for people who don't want to bother with that. Also, there are some spells that can light a fire. - Ralte wrote:
- Is mine ready?
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=758320
- Shaula wrote:
- @ the first one:"Maybe with her good ears Drea could overhear talk of some Bad Thing people want to do to us and warn us about it?"
"Hmm, since the group is in the Cheap Ale at some point, maybe some of the people of the slums would try to rob the group and you've overhear that and warn them?" I agreed to this, I thought that meant we've got a reason. (And a reason for her to bother with warning them would be... well, she doesn't really care about the group much yet, so she's got a thing against those particular people of the slums at the moment. Maybe they tried to rob HER earlier? Not sure.) Sounds good in my ears. Urmelena would warn them in any case because Lawful Good Paladin. So, in that case maybe they could have tried to rob Urmelena too or not. Of course it isn’t easy to rob a battle wise Paladin. Could be of course only a few guys the first time and they come back with more people of their gang to rob this time somebody with more success just to be safe.
- Shaula wrote:
- "Oh, and you CAN do ranged Sneak Attacks BUT, only on a range of 30 ft AND since you can't flank someone without being in melee, you can only do that sneak attack when the enemy is denied their DEX bonus to AC, like being surprised or you being invisible. So Ranged Sneak Attacks only work when they are denied their DEX to AC, melee Sneack Attacks can also be triggers simply by flanking."
I always thought that at least snipers are specialized in doing ranged sneak attacks with their weapons. 1) You should probably list things like your Detect Evil at will ability under Feats and Special Abilities, but it looks fine as far as I can tell. 2) I thought Urmelena and Drea don't have a connection right now? You join the group because of Shadowskulk, I thought? And the fact that you would tell people hardly matters if you don't know, after all, your Listen check isn't nearly as good as Dreas. 3) Yes, dedicated snipers take feats or use spells or take levels in classes that allow them to sneak at a larger range. However, most of those options are for the mid or endgame For example, Assassins get access to a spell that allows them to Sneak Attack at any range during this turn. | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 12:57 pm | |
| "It is a german saying. “Grau ist alle Theorie” means that a theory doesn’t get you results, only a practical try can give you useful results."
While that may be true, you have to have the theory figured out before making practical tries, or you'll have no idea what you're doing when you start practical tries.
"Sounds good in my ears. Urmelena would warn them in any case because Lawful Good Paladin. So, in that case maybe they could have tried to rob Urmelena too or not. Of course it isn’t easy to rob a battle wise Paladin. Could be of course only a few guys the first time and they come back with more people of their gang to rob this time somebody with more success just to be safe."
Uh, so, I come up with an idea for how to join the group, and your response appears to be 'how could I do that thing instead of you'?
"Melee focus is good, though you should at least not totally discard your ranged options, they can be helpful just in case. Anyways, I don't think you need to change anything on your sheet, but I noticed you forgot to add the saves bonus you get from your class."
Yeah, they can definitely be helpful. And, uh, where do I add the saves bonus?
"Craven is a very good but very tricky feat. For one, it is one of the few feats that come with a downside and it's a downside quite a few people find annoying. It also has a flavor that I'm not sure would fit your character. Basically, it's either that your character is so paranoid about others that they've become especially good at backstabbing, 'cause they can't harm you if you kill them first OR they are so incredibly good at backstabbing that they've become paranoid about how others might backstab them.
And as for Weapon Finess, right now it'd give you a +3 to hit, so I'd say that sounds like a pretty good deal. So unless you plan to take levels as Swashbuckler, I'd say go for it. However, Weapon Finess requires a BAB of at least +1, so you can't take it yet, you'll have to wait at least untill level 3. Also, if you really want to go the melee way, you should consider taking Shadow Blade eventually. Maybe something like taking your fifth level as Swordsage 1 and then taking Shadow Blade at level 6 could work."
So, no Craven, and no Weapon Finesse yet... *looks for something else* Two-weapon fighting's apparently very good, as is Able Learner? | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:40 pm | |
| - Shaula wrote:
- Yeah, they can definitely be helpful. And, uh, where do I add the saves bonus?
~snip~
So, no Craven, and no Weapon Finesse yet... *looks for something else* Two-weapon fighting's apparently very good, as is Able Learner? Save Bonuses are on your sheet, you need to put a 2 under Base for Reflex saves, since Rogues get a +2 on Reflex saves. Two-Weapon Fighting is very good if you focus on it, as it gives you an additional attack if you use a Full attack and if you have precision damage, it applies to each attack that hits, so, yeah, Two-Weapon Fighting CAN be pretty good. Able Learner is great, but how much use YOU will get out of it will depend on what other classes you plan to take in the future. What Able Learner does is allowing you to buy ranks in Cross Class Skills with only one skill point instead of two. However, you are still limited in the maximum number of skill ranks you can take. If you plan to take levels in a class that doesn't have many of the skills you want to keep maxed as class skills, it's an incredible feat. It is also a prerequirement if you want to take the Chameleon class, a class that is VERY fun as it allows you to basically switch between classes each day. If you want to stay as Rogue for a long time though it is mostly usless to you. Also, keep in mind that you can ONLY take this feat at first level, so you HAVE to decide now. Oh, and I don't think Ralte was trying to be mean, I think Ralte is still on the idea of Urmelena and Drea traveling together before they join the group. | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:32 pm | |
| no that doesnt sound like ralte was saying, he seemed to be saying 'oh hey i could warn the group cause they tried to attack me first' | |
| | | royalPawn
Posts : 1880 Join date : 2013-07-12 Age : 28 Location : B4
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:02 pm | |
| What do you think about this: The bad guys try to rob Drea. Urmelena comes to her aid and together they manage to pose enough of a threat to chase the rlbbers off. Urmelena isn't satisfied until all of them have been arrested however, and she and Drea team up to track them down (Drea agrees cause she now owes Urmelena and/or the robbers made off with an Important Thingie.) They track them down to the Cheap Ale and Drea (probably in disguise) listens in on their conversation, learning their next target is the weird bunch at that table there. (Presumably they got some backup since earlier.) Drea reports back to Urmelena, and the pair decides to warn the group and offer their help in fending off the attackers. | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 3:07 pm | |
| Well, that's up for Shaula and Ralte to decide | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 4:33 pm | |
| "no that doesnt sound like ralte was saying, he seemed to be saying 'oh hey i could warn the group cause they tried to attack me first'"
That's exactly what it sounds like, yes.
"Able Learner is great, but how much use YOU will get out of it will depend on what other classes you plan to take in the future. What Able Learner does is allowing you to buy ranks in Cross Class Skills with only one skill point instead of two. However, you are still limited in the maximum number of skill ranks you can take. If you plan to take levels in a class that doesn't have many of the skills you want to keep maxed as class skills, it's an incredible feat. It is also a prerequirement if you want to take the Chameleon class, a class that is VERY fun as it allows you to basically switch between classes each day. If you want to stay as Rogue for a long time though it is mostly usless to you. Also, keep in mind that you can ONLY take this feat at first level, so you HAVE to decide now."
Well, there was the whole Scout/Swordsage shenanigans idea, I'm probly going with that, so... ??
"The bad guys try to rob Drea. Urmelena comes to her aid and together they manage to pose enough of a threat to chase the rlbbers off. Urmelena isn't satisfied until all of them have been arrested however, and she and Drea team up to track them down (Drea agrees cause she now owes Urmelena and/or the robbers made off with an Important Thingie.) They track them down to the Cheap Ale and Drea (probably in disguise) listens in on their conversation, learning their next target is the weird bunch at that table there. (Presumably they got some backup since earlier.) Drea reports back to Urmelena, and the pair decides to warn the group and offer their help in fending off the attackers."
ehhh I dunno, Urmelena doesn't really need to get involved since she's got a reason already, and a lot of her suggested actions fit a lot less if Urmelena's there too, tbh. | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:10 pm | |
| - Shaula wrote:
- Well, there was the whole Scout/Swordsage shenanigans idea, I'm probly going with that, so... ??
ehhh I dunno, Urmelena doesn't really need to get involved since she's got a reason already, and a lot of her suggested actions fit a lot less if Urmelena's there too, tbh. Then yeah, go for Able Learner. And yeah, no reason for that, Urmelena gets involved because of Shadowskulk and Drea gets involved because she overhears the plan, not because she got robbed first. Lets just state it clearly now: Urmelena and Drea do not join the group together, they each have seperate reasons for joining. | |
| | | Ralte
Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-12-19 Location : Land of Fun & Genetic improbalities
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 9:47 pm | |
| Well, my original reason sounds good enough. Urmelena wants to join because she thinks some bad people could be between the crypt and the party.
I apologise Shaula. I didn’t want to upstage you, nor stealing the spotlight from your character. I only wanted to do a suggestion. I think I didn’t thought the ramifications through. Again, I’m sorry. | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 31 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:11 pm | |
| You don't even know about the crypt or heck, if Wanderer and the others will find anything about the crypt yet. The best reason would probably just that because you want to fight against evil and joining a group is probably the best chance for you to do that. | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:14 pm | |
| - Ralte wrote:
- I apologise Shaula. I didn’t want to upstage you, nor stealing the spotlight from your character. I only wanted to do a suggestion. I think I didn’t thought the ramifications through.
Again, I’m sorry. Apology accepted. | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:20 pm | |
| yeh i agree with oj
theres no way you knew about the crypt before hand, the most likely reason is u bump into shadowskulk and decide to follow him or smth | |
| | | Ralte
Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-12-19 Location : Land of Fun & Genetic improbalities
| Subject: Re: The Nightfall DnD Preparation Thread Tue Mar 24, 2015 10:21 pm | |
| Okay, reason why she joins them.... Suggestion: She is already at the crypt for some reason? No, doesn't sound good...
Okay, I have no good idea at the moment. | |
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