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 DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:16 pm

OverlordJ wrote:
It has no suggestions for costs, saying that these items should be used like mysterious artifacts or something. That means that players are not supposed to buy of craft these, which makes getting ammunition for them a big issue.

That reminds me, the cost for writing new spells in a spellbook is 100 gp per page (for "special
quills, inks, and other supplies"). The most common explanation for this seems to be that it's a balancing mechanic the ink used is magical itself and thus really expensive.
So I was wondering, is there any way to maybe make or 'mine' (if it's a semi-natural liquid) this ink yourself? After all it's got to come from somewhere and it would be cheaper since they'd ask more money for the ink than they spent on it.

Related question: what would be a good way to store a number of books so that I don't have to worry about their weight and can access any of the instantly, without having to worry about losing all of them to Dispel Magic?
(There's apparently something called Eidetic Spellcaster which would remove the need for spellbooks entirely, but it sacrifices your familiar which I really want to keep. )

I'm basically looking at how I can efficiently collect as many spells as possible ("I" being both myself and my character in this case.). Though if there's any practices that would work well but you don't like I won't use them

Why do so many things remove your familiar? If there is one thing I wouldn't trade for power it would be the creature that is closer to me and understands me better than anyone else because we're literally part of the same being.
WHY DO YOU TEMPT ME THIS WAY I WILL NOT FALL TO YOUR TREACHEROUS TONGUES

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:29 pm

It's probably something as simple as regular ink enchanted by expending arcane spell slots. So you could probably make it yourself, but you'd probably save no more than what you could make by expending the spell slots by working as a hedge wizard. If anything it might be more expensive to make it yourself because of the cost of the raw ink.
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:49 pm

Mather mentioned razer comms last page and I can verify that it works very well and is generally superior to skype in most ways (Higher sound quality, better options, uses less memory, less ads) however razer comms doesn't have video calls and most people already have skype.

I don't see why you couldn't just take craft(writing supplies) and make the stuff yourself using normal craft rules.

Edit: If you put max ranks in craft and used masterwork tools you'd be able to make one page of supplies in about two and one half weeks assuming the dc is 20.
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:47 pm

royalPawn wrote:
OverlordJ wrote:
It has no suggestions for costs, saying that these items should be used like mysterious artifacts or something. That means that players are not supposed to buy of craft these, which makes getting ammunition for them a big issue.

That reminds me, the cost for writing new spells in a spellbook is 100 gp per page (for "special
quills, inks, and other supplies"). The most common explanation for this seems to be that it's a balancing mechanic the ink used is magical itself and thus really expensive.
So I was wondering, is there any way to maybe make or 'mine' (if it's a semi-natural liquid) this ink yourself? After all it's got to come from somewhere and it would be cheaper since they'd ask more money for the ink than they spent on it.

Related question: what would be a good way to store a number of books so that I don't have to worry about their weight and can access any of the instantly, without having to worry about losing all of them to Dispel Magic?
(There's apparently something called Eidetic Spellcaster which would remove the need for spellbooks entirely, but it sacrifices your familiar which I really want to keep. )

I'm basically looking at how I can efficiently collect as many spells as possible ("I" being both myself and my character in this case.). Though if there's any practices that would work well but you don't like I won't use them

Why do so many things remove your familiar? If there is one thing I wouldn't trade for power it would be the creature that is closer to me and understands me better than anyone else because we're literally part of the same being.
WHY DO YOU TEMPT ME THIS WAY I WILL NOT FALL TO YOUR TREACHEROUS TONGUES

First of all, remember that the cost is ONLY for spells that you add IN ADDITION TO THE TWO YOU GET EACH LEVEL. Those two are completly free, it is assumed that you have the ink needed to write them and everything.

Arguably, ink and "supplies" could be crafted with enough ranks in a craft skill. It is unclear what the exact skill would be, though most people I found suggested allowing Craft:Alchemy to create the supplies and ink. I'd think the DC would be a 20 (complex or superior item). Please note that creating ink in such a way would take quite a lot of time, since you make progress in one week equal to [your check result] x [the DC (20)] in silver pieces. So in order to create enough ink in one week to write one page, you'd have to have a check result of 50. So it would likely take you two or three weeks to produce enough ink to write a single page. Note that a lower DC means that you are more likely to make progress, but you would make less progress if you succeed.

So IF I allow you to craft your ink, it would take you weeks to write down a single spell. And you'd still need to spend a third of the cost for materials to craft the ink.

There are a few items that basically functions like a spellbook but you DON'T have to spend money to write a spell in it. Of course they are a bit expensive up front, but if you use them to only write spells you learned in OTHER ways then from level ups, you can safe a LOT of money that way.

One good way to store books is obviously a library. Seriously though, especially high level Wizards prefer to keep backup spellbooks at home and only carry one book that contains the spells they believe they will most likely need.

There are also things like the Bag of Holding, or, perhaps even better for you, Heward's Handy Haversack, which let you carry a lot of heavy stuff without having to carry a lot of heavy stuff.

Some magic items work like a spellbook but could arguably be easier to carry.

Spell Mastery is a feat that allows you to so completly memorize a number of your spells, that you can prepare then without a spellbook. If you take that feat often enough, you could theoretically know every spell without a spellbook.

A Wizard who specializes in Illusions can choose to NOT get bonus spells and instead know more spells and be able to prepare Illusion spells without a spellbook.

It is possible to tatoo spell onto your skin. Of course the space is pretty limited, but it IS an option that is easy to carry, always accesible (depending on the place you tatood of course) and is nearly impossible to lose. Tatooing your favourite third level spell on your left forearm is totally possible and might even look cool.

Collegiate Wizard is a feat that basically lets you know twice as many free spells each level but can only be taken at first level.


So yeah, those are the main ways to know more spells and to carry spellbooks more easily.

As for why so many features trade away your familiar away, well, a familiar can be VERY useful. But only if you know how to use them properly. And If you use them badly, they can even be a danger to you, since they cost money to get and you lose exp if they die. And the earlier you take levels in a PrC, the less useful is your Familiar. So if you only plan to take, lets say three levels as wizard, and after that start taking levels in a PrC, why WOULDN'T you trade that weak little animal away, especially for a potentially VERY powerful ability.

Basically, both OOC and IC, many people disagree on familiars. Some see them as helpful, trusty companions, others see them as annoying liabilities. And depending on how you play it, your familiar might be anything from which is basically two (crappy) free feats (a toad is basically just Alertness and Toughness) to an awesome, impressivly talented, killing machine.

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:01 pm

OverlordJ wrote:
First of all, remember that the cost is ONLY for spells that you add IN ADDITION TO THE TWO YOU GET EACH LEVEL. Those two are completly free, it is assumed that you have the ink needed to write them and everything.
Yeah I know that.

OverlordJ wrote:
Arguably, ink and "supplies" could be crafted with enough ranks in a craft skill. It is unclear what the exact skill would be, though most people I found suggested allowing Craft:Alchemy to create the supplies and ink. I'd think the DC would be a 20 (complex or superior item). Please note that creating ink in such a way would take quite a lot of time, since you make progress in one week equal to [your check result] x [the DC (20)] in silver pieces. So in order to create enough ink in one week to write one page, you'd have to have a check result of 50. So it would likely take you two or three weeks to produce enough ink to write a single page. Note that a lower DC means that you are more likely to make progress, but you would make less progress if you succeed.

So IF I allow you to craft your ink, it would take you weeks to write down a single spell. And you'd still need to spend a third of the cost for materials to craft the ink.
Ok so that's probably not worth the trouble. I wonder how they keep up with demand...

OverlordJ wrote:
There are a few items that basically functions like a spellbook but you DON'T have to spend money to write a spell in it. Of course they are a bit expensive up front, but if you use them to only write spells you learned in OTHER ways then from level ups, you can safe a LOT of money that way.
That sounds good. I'll have to look into that once I've gathered some cash.

OverlordJ wrote:
One good way to store books is obviously a library. Seriously though, especially high level Wizards prefer to keep backup spellbooks at home and only carry one book that contains the spells they believe they will most likely need.
Sensible, but not very "I-can-rework-reality-with-my-mind-like. Though there's probably a spell that could let me summon a book if I really need it. And magic libraries are pretty cool...

OverlordJ wrote:
There are also things like the Bag of Holding, or, perhaps even better for you, Heward's Handy Haversack, which let you carry a lot of heavy stuff without having to carry a lot of heavy stuff.
Those are useful but I've heard that if the bag/sack is destroyed everything in it is lost, so I'm not sure if putting all my beloved spellbooks in there would be a good idea? ':I

OverlordJ wrote:
Some magic items work like a spellbook but could arguably be easier to carry.
The same as above I take it?

OverlordJ wrote:
Spell Mastery is a feat that allows you to so completely memorize a number of your spells, that you can prepare then without a spellbook. If you take that feat often enough, you could theoretically know every spell without a spellbook.
Probably not the best way to spend feats. I might use it a few times if I run out of other cool feats to pick.

OverlordJ wrote:
A Wizard who specializes in Illusions can choose to NOT get bonus spells and instead know more spells and be able to prepare Illusion spells without a spellbook.
Neat, but not really an option for me.

OverlordJ wrote:
It is possible to tatoo spell onto your skin. Of course the space is pretty limited, but it IS an option that is easy to carry, always accessible (depending on the place you tatood of course) and is nearly impossible to lose. Tatooing your favourite third level spell on your left forearm is totally possible and might even look cool.
Hm, I'll definitely consider that one. I don't think it quite fits my character at this point, but maybe after a couple adventures when he feels his badass levels justify it.

OverlordJ wrote:
Collegiate Wizard is a feat that basically lets you know twice as many free spells each level but can only be taken at first level.
°-° I want that. Apparently it's supposed to be in the CA but the pdf I have doesn't list it for some reason otherwise I would have picked that in a heartbeat. Sorry Improved Initiative, maybe some other time! It gives more starter lvl 1 spells too, this is great! Hurray for wizard schools!

OverlordJ wrote:
As for why so many features trade away your familiar away, well, a familiar can be VERY useful. But only if you know how to use them properly. And If you use them badly, they can even be a danger to you, since they cost money to get and you lose exp if they die. And the earlier you take levels in a PrC, the less useful is your Familiar. So if you only plan to take, lets say three levels as wizard, and after that start taking levels in a PrC, why WOULDN'T you trade that weak little animal away, especially for a potentially VERY powerful ability.

Basically, both OOC and IC, many people disagree on familiars. Some see them as helpful, trusty companions, others see them as annoying liabilities. And depending on how you play it, your familiar might be anything from which is basically two (crappy) free feats (a toad is basically just Alertness and Toughness) to an awesome, impressively talented, killing machine.
I just can't help but feel there's something fundamentally wrong about giving up your hypothetical best friend because they're not useful enough... But I guess that's more sentiment than mechanical optimization so idk. Let other people do what they want but I'm keeping him and I'm not trading him for the universe dammit.
...Unless whatever powers I'd get would allow me to just bring him back anyway. Then that would basiaclly be the best deal ever.

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:15 pm

royalPawn wrote:
OverlordJ wrote:
Arguably, ink and "supplies" could be crafted with enough ranks in a craft skill. It is unclear what the exact skill would be, though most people I found suggested allowing Craft:Alchemy to create the supplies and ink. I'd think the DC would be a 20 (complex or superior item). Please note that creating ink in such a way would take quite a lot of time, since you make progress in one week equal to [your check result] x [the DC (20)] in silver pieces. So in order to create enough ink in one week to write one page, you'd have to have a check result of 50. So it would likely take you two or three weeks to produce enough ink to write a single page. Note that a lower DC means that you are more likely to make progress, but you would make less progress if you succeed.

So IF I allow you to craft your ink, it would take you weeks to write down a single spell. And you'd still need to spend a third of the cost for materials to craft the ink.
Ok so that's probably not worth the trouble. I wonder how they keep up with demand....
Because if they don't keep up with demand, the price rises. Because the price rises, more people will want to make it. When people make it, then the demand is met and the price settles.

Also, for 12.5k, or 6.25k if someone takes Craft Wondrous Item, you can get the Blessed Book, which contains 1000 pages (10x as much as a normal spellbook) that you can inscribe without paying for ink.
Quite insane actually. If you get that and go to a library of spellbooks to fill it with copied spells, you save 100k on ink.
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:46 pm

royalPawn wrote:
Yeah I know that.

Alright, I just wanted to be sure.

Quote :
Ok so that's probably not worth the trouble. I wonder how they keep up with demand...

There are a couple ways, but there is a reason why nonmagical crafters are usually NPCs, crafting takes surprisingly long. You COULD spend feats the get better at crafting, but at that point you stop being good at pretty much anything but crafting, which is why it's usually NPCs who bother doing it. Honestly, most crafting in DnD is kind of weird when you think everything needs to be crafted. Even a talented smith will need over a month to make a single set of Full Plate, if you think about it too much, the economy in DnD will break appart.

Quote :
That sounds good. I'll have to look into that once I've gathered some cash.

Boccob’s Blessed Book is probably the most well known, having 1000 free pages, but costing 12500 gp to buy. In Eberron they also have magic crystals which can store spells similar to a spellbook. Aureon's Spellshard is basically have of Boccob's book, it costs half as much but only has half as many pages.

Quote :
Sensible, but not very "I-can-rework-reality-with-my-mind-like. Though there's probably a spell that could let me summon a book if I really need it. And magic libraries are pretty cool...

I think there might have been a spell that lets you summon a previously marked item, but there isn't much point to it, a spellbook can contain many spells, don't worry about not knowing enough of them.

Quote :
Those are useful but I've heard that if the bag/sack is destroyed everything in it is lost, so I'm not sure if putting all my beloved spellbooks in there would be a good idea? ':I

Which is exactly why highlevel Wizards make backup copies of their books. It's expensive and takes quite a while, but it is very much worth it. Protecting your own life is easier then protecting an object you are carrying with you.

Quote :
The same as above I take it?

Well, there are the crystals I just talked about for example, they work exactly like a spellbook, but they are crystals.

Quote :
Probably not the best way to spend feats. I might use it a few times if I run out of other cool feats to pick.

It's not the best, but it is one possible option for your Wizard bonus feat, and if you don't want to use Metamagic (which isn't always as good as it seems) and don't want to bother creating your own magic items, it is certainly an option. Plus, one of my favourite feats requires it, Signature Spell. And for you, Familair Spell might be interessting, basically allowing you to cast more spells per day as long as your familair sticks close to you.

Quote :
Hm, I'll definitely consider that one. I don't think it quite fits my character at this point, but maybe after a couple adventures when he feels his badass levels justify it.

Check Complete Arcana, I believe that's where the info about alternative spellbooks is in. Things like the tatoos are under chapter 7 and some ways to protect an ordinary spellbook are in the chapter with the magic items, I think.

Quote :
°-° I want that. Apparently it's supposed to be in the CA but the pdf I have doesn't list it for some reason otherwise I would have picked that in a heartbeat. Sorry Improved Initiative, maybe some other time! It gives more starter lvl 1 spells too, this is great! Hurray for wizard schools!

Yeah, both it and Precocious Apprentice are in Complete Arcane but on page 181 in a sidebar, with a special note that, if a GM would like for Wizards to be able to better reflect their different trainings, they could allow these feats in their campaign. I know how it feel to search for a feat that you KNOW is supposed to be in a book, only to find out it's at a different place then all the other feats.

Quote :
I just can't help but feel there's something fundamentally wrong about giving up your hypothetical best friend because they're not useful enough... But I guess that's more sentiment than mechanical optimization so idk. Let other people do what they want but I'm keeping him and I'm not trading him for the universe dammit.
...Unless whatever powers I'd get would allow me to just bring him back anyway. Then that would basiaclly be the best deal ever.

Not every Wizard considers their familiar to be a friend, some see them as little more then tools, after all, they are magically bound to you.

Also, I feel the need to point out that there is a feat I dislike that allows casters to gain the ability to be able to gain a Familiar, just like a sorcerer, except it counts all your arcane class levels, basically making this option better then simply having the familiar. As such I'd think I'd rule that people who traded their ability to optain a familiar away can't take that feat.

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:46 am

i just made multiple characters by myself in 5e, so hopefully my experience with that will help me with 3.5.

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:59 am

Yeah, that's what you end up doing when you get into these systems. You make so many characters even though you're barely going to use any of them. It's so much fun though...
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:56 am

If anyone has any fully made 3.5 characters lying around, remember that you could use them as backups in case of death. Or you could send them to me and I might use them as NPCs. That's the great thing for the GM, you can use all those characters you made as NPCs.

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:42 am

ive got an old half-elf archer if u want him oj, i didnt really like playing him so hes free for you
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:21 pm

Sure, post the sheet and I'll see if I can use him.

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:24 pm

uh ive got it on paper so it might take a bit to transcribe it, and ive gotta go to a dnd session in like twenty minutes, ill transcribe and link when i get back form that
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:24 pm

Sure thing, no rush.

Fun Fact: I made a character who will be dead before the session starts, so it'll be pretty unlikely that you will ever encounter them. I decided to make a sheet for them anyways, to figure out exactly what they would have been capable of when they were alive. Now I have finished their sheet and I'm tempted to find a way for them to come back from the dead, just because I like their abilities so much. Being a GM is hard...

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:45 pm

I've got a ton of Pathfinder characters, including one that can kill Lucifer in two full-attack actions, but the only DnD character I have apart from Shadowskulk is a lesser Zenythri of a homebrew class that I fluffed into Touma from Toaru Majutsu no Index.

Might start cooking up some though.
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:34 pm

As a fair warning, I am not going to promise that I will use a character you post, obviously I'll only use characters that fit. That said, I'll of course be happy to use any character I can.

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:10 pm

okie im ready to make it, do u want me to make it in mythweavers and let u edit it?
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:49 pm

Sure, that would probably be the best

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:30 pm

cl cl lemme finish dinner and ill do that

EDIT:
okie done that how do i allow u to edit?
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:41 pm

I tink it's the "Share" button next to the "Save" button. I think you'd need to add me (OverlordJ) to the "Sheet User" and give me the role of "Editor"

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:17 pm

cl cl ill do that now

EDIT:

there ya go i sent u a pm, hopefully its okie, ill make sure not to go on that sheet from now on to save from spoilers xD
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:35 pm

What levels would you like by the way? Do you want them of all reasonable experience groups or do you want them to scale with us as DMPCs?
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:32 pm

Anything would be good, but please realize that the higher their level, the less likely I'll use them and the longer it'll likely take untill they become relevant.

Also, for some reason Firefox is giving me a 404 when I try to go to this forum now? Any idea what happened there?

EDIT: Now that I used Chrome Firefox suddenly stopped having the issue, no idea what's going on, huh.

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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:54 pm

Silck has informed me that the forum is currently not working for some people.
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PostSubject: Re: DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling   Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:36 pm

yeh me and shau couldnt get in, now ive finally managed to get in i had asked iv to most in the MAIN THREAD, which he now has after me clarifying

and i dont think my guy was above ten, maybe seven ish? idk sorry
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DnD Preparation Thread II: Let's Get Rolling
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