| | mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings | |
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+3OverlordJ Shaula silckenSoul 7 posters | |
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silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:06 am | |
| holy shit i loved it so much he really understands his audience xD | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:32 pm | |
| C O N F I R M E D
(Also AR bby i missed u so much) | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:58 pm | |
| i dont miss those rotten specs at all but yeh so much confirmed xD | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:42 pm | |
| It didn't load for me but I found it on youtube.
Yes, this was a good update. | |
| | | TheBookwormBakery
Posts : 645 Join date : 2014-03-20 Age : 25 Location : Lost in the internet
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:06 am | |
| This is for the second upd8 today:
OF COURSE Vriska would be involved in all the important things in the new timeline. Why did I even think the sleeve would be Karkat lmao | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:05 am | |
| Well, I talked with some other people and most of them liked the update, except for the possible Dave<3Karkat thing, though honestly it just seemed like a friendship to me, you know, like they already had but without having to worry about Rose and Terezi.
To be honest though, I don't quite understand WHY Vriska stopped Rose from drinking? I mean, how did she know this would become an issue? | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:15 am | |
| I like dave<>kk, cute and a ship I always liked anyway
and yeh vris stopping rose from drinking is either deus ex machina, her realising drink made her less-rose-like, or supreme luck again
or maybe its just light knows whats best for light
but did vriska tell dirk to make arquius????????
cause that's BAD | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:22 am | |
| I'm also disappointed in the decision to have Vriska stop Rose from drinking. And is she pulling the Be Responsible For Villain's Creation shit again with Arquius? GODDAMNIT VRISKA
(love the music tho. and the arts. and basically everything I didn't complain about.) | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:31 pm | |
| Is making ARquius really that bad? I mean, the one that became part of LE is already there, probably, because Gamzee made one, I think? Honestly, this is advanced time bullshit we have to deal with, thanks to the retcon power, so it's a bit hard for me to understand what has already happened and what will happen. | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:47 pm | |
| yes but if shes made arquius which is making this time line another stable loop
if she hadnt made arquius then he wouldnt have been made in this timeline | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:03 pm | |
| ARquius wouldn't exist in the retconned version of events if not for Vriska. I'm not entirely sure whether LE was affected by said retcon, but I think there's a good chance HE wouldn't exist in the retconned version of events if not for Vriska. In that case, she's made herself responsible for the villain's existence again. If he would've existed anyway... I have no idea what the hell she made ARq for, in that case.
Also: You know what's a disappointment? I just realised... had Hussie done the sprites thing a little differently, we could've had a partly-Nepeta sprite go into Cal.
But no. He missed the opportunity to make it so that Lord English is Nepeta. I am disappoint. | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 4:30 pm | |
| yeh i agree with that
tho we still have a weakness in that eq might stop le from targeting nep
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| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:23 pm | |
| Counter Point: Pre-Retcon Vriska still exists in the Dream Bubble, even though the Retcon prevented her existance. I doubt that LE would have stopped existing just because ARquius wasn't made AND I doubt we will have to deal with more then one LE. Thus, I doubt the ARquius created by Vriska will create LE.
That is, unless the whole Caliborns Stop-Motion Story hasn't happened yet and because of the Retcons will be different from what we've heard.
As for why else she made ARquius, well, maybe she just wanted to try to revive some of her dead troll "friends"? After all, without the Magic Cue-Ball, Vriska DOESN'T know what will happen in the future, so not everything needs to be a big plan of hers. | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:53 pm | |
| she could have just made equius without making arquius i seriously doubt that would be her intention | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:01 pm | |
| "Counter Point: Pre-Retcon Vriska still exists in the Dream Bubble, even though the Retcon prevented her existance."
Weird ghost shit.
"I doubt that LE would have stopped existing just because ARquius wasn't made"
Why? | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:46 pm | |
| @ Silck:
Technically, we don't know if she wanted to make ARquius, she might just as well have been like "Yo, Strider Dude, I'm gonna throw this head into your sprite now, okay?" I mean, we see her standing there with Equius' Head and pointing at the unprototyped sprite. Sure, Dirk is looking at AR before that but we don't technically know what she is telling him, just that it looks like she is saying something about the sprite.
@Shaula
Obviously, things within the bubbles, if not within the Furthest Ring in general, are outside of Time and Space. That's why weird ghost shit exists after all. And where is LE at the moment (besides ALREADY HERE)? He's in the Furthest Ring, laserfacing all the bubbles.
I have some other reasons, though I have trouble putting them in words. One, I think, is that it would be pretty anticlimactic if LE was defeated by "he was never created and thus he just stopped existing". Another is that, shouldn't all the things connected to him get retconned as well, if LE's existance was retconned? Wouldn't that mean that Doc Scratch never existed? And if he never existed, imagine want an impact THAT would have on the story. I mean, without ARquius, we don't have his soul in Cal, without a soul, Cal couldn't manipulate people and probably couldn't be used to make Scratch and without Scratch, who knows how Alternia would have been. I mean, the "Demoness" would have died, Gl'bgolyb wouldn't have been on Alternia, heck, society might have been like it was on Beforus and it might have resulted in the Trolls never defeating the Black King, thus never creating the Universe of the kids.
After all, as we see with Vriska here, retcons DO have far reaching consequences, even if some of them seem somewhat bullshit. | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:09 pm | |
| "One, I think, is that it would be pretty anticlimactic if LE was defeated by "he was never created and thus he just stopped existing"."
He WOULDN'T be defeated, though, because it is strongly implied that Vriska made ARquius and therefore made it so he DOES EXIST IN THE POST-RETCON TIMELINE. Same @ all the things connected getting retconned. There would still be an LE, it's just that one of his components would've been made by Vriska instead of Gamzee. | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:22 am | |
| See, I knew I didn't know how to word it properly.
Regardless of whether or not Vriska created ARquius, I am still fairly sure that the already existing LE would have continued existing, both because without him, I'm pretty sure all of time would be basically falling appart, because, well, the fact that he was already here didn't get retconned, since he was already here, so he had to be created somehow. I am sure I'm not explaining it correctly again, I should probably just stop... | |
| | | Sandstriker
Posts : 2283 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 25 Location : The Afterlife
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:06 am | |
| ILLUMINATI CONFIRMED.
that is all i have to say on the matter. | |
| | | Ralte
Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-12-19 Location : Land of Fun & Genetic improbalities
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:43 pm | |
| Foreword: I may point out some things people have already discussed. This text are represent my feelings about the matter of the Up8 ACT 6 ACT INTERMISSION 5. - Spoiler:
Okay, okay... My thoughts on this ACT 6 ACT INTERMISSION 5 TOO MUCH RETCON! I like it...? Or not? The art was nice… I’m so confused. For once: Hussie threw away almost characters to replace them with the same to an earlier point in time? I mean... It was not the best outcome but if all this is lost now and has no meaning anymore that would be sad. Also it would feel like a big waste of time in some way. Also Vriska <3 Meenah are still there? In the past? I don’t get it
HOW DOES TIME WORK IN PARADOX-SPACE?!?!?!
To quote Mike Nelson: “Space is warped and time is bendable.”
But with players with the aspects of time and space around, this is a real possibility. But why...? Couldn’t a ghost from the future warn the others at other points in time?
And what is with Vriskas ability to jump to paradox space to the beta kids session? Did she steal that from Gamzee or what? Her creating Tavrossprite is pretty nice of her though, that way Jane gets another friend.
Also Vriska’s actions on the meteor... Why stopping Rose from drinking? Became the two friends? Did she go through a similar development like she had in the dream bubbles? Hussie can’t jump over those important questions! I wish for more details and explanations why the things that happened, happened, happened. That little movie left so many things unexplained.
And my main point of complain: Is it over for the characters we followed for a LONG time to a huge amount? Hussie cut a HUGE part of history out for almost all of the characters (except John and Roxy). Important parts, parts that explained so much about the characters, their actions and developments…. All gone now... I hoped for a fusion of both timeline, that the retcon would lead the bad timeline and the good timeline together to create the best timeline. But to be honest all of this looks now like simple time travel, not a huge retcon. Okay, time travel is sometimes part of a retcon but in that case Dave could have done all of this.
Still: I still have a tiny sliver of hope left that the things that were lost aren’t lost for the main timeline forever.
Also I like the idea that Vriska solved problems for many characters in the story. I would only like to learn how... Also if she still was punished for killing Tavros in some way... Even if it was self-defence, some people could be angry about it. Another reason that doomed timeline should fuse with the new alpha-timeline.
Ramble and rant is over.
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| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:20 pm | |
| - Ralte wrote:
- Foreword: I may point out some things people have already discussed. This text are represent my feelings about the matter of the Up8 ACT 6 ACT INTERMISSION 5.
I hope you don't mind if I reply to some of your points? - Spoiler:
- Quote :
- My thoughts on this ACT 6 ACT INTERMISSION 5
TOO MUCH RETCON! I like it...? Or not? The art was nice… I’m so confused. For once: Hussie threw away almost characters to replace them with the same to an earlier point in time? I mean... It was not the best outcome but if all this is lost now and has no meaning anymore that would be sad. Also it would feel like a big waste of time in some way. While, technically, I suppose we might have seen the last of the originals in Caliborns little show, I sort of doubt it. We haven't really seen how John and Roxy got together with the others or anything. And besides those two, everyone else is dead, they'll at most appear as ghosts in the dream bubbles, and because of the Furthest Ring and the Horrorterrors, it might easily be years before they appear there. Remember, Meenah, even though she died in the same moment as her teammates, arrived in the bubble ages after them. - Quote :
- Also Vriska <3 Meenah are still there? In the past? I don’t get it
HOW DOES TIME WORK IN PARADOX-SPACE?!?!?! The Furthest Ring is specifically OUTSIDE of Time and Space, they do not function properly there. Dead people from all timelines appear there. Apparently, even retcons don't affect the ghosts in the bubbles. - Quote :
- Couldn’t a ghost from the future warn the others at other points in time?
So far, I don't think we've ever seen someone appear in the dream bubbles before they died, only delayed. I think time in the Furthest Ring works kind of similar to our time. The dead Vriska from before the retcon is already there because she died a while ago. - Quote :
- And what is with Vriskas ability to jump to paradox space to the beta kids session? Did she steal that from Gamzee or what?
Sort of, they both used the same way, they used a timetravel device likely belonging to Aradia, though we can technically not say for certain that it isn't Damaras. You can see the musicboxes floating next to both Gamzee and Vriska. Basically, they waited on the meteor untill the meteor hit the planet on the session, traveled to the right planet and then traveled back in time with the musicboxes. - Quote :
- Also Vriska’s actions on the meteor... Why stopping Rose from drinking?
I had the same question but someone actually suggested a pretty good possible answer to me. What we see is likely a point in time at which Rose has already been drinking and this has already affected her actions. Remember when she forgot her date with Kanaya because she was drunk? Remember how pretty much noone got too upset about it and basically just looked away from the issue? Image how Vriska would likely react. She'd get upset. She would not smack the drink out of Roses hand to purposly stop her from drinking, she'd smack it out of her hand because she got angry at her tardiness. And perhaps this is just what Rose needed to see the errors of her ways. When noone was speaking up about how bad she was getting, she overlooked it herself as well, but now that she's dealing with an upset Vriska, maybe she's realizing just what she's doing wrong, thus stoping it herself. - Quote :
- Became the two friends? Did she go through a similar development like she had in the dream bubbles?
Hussie can’t jump over those important questions! I wish for more details and explanations why the things that happened, happened, happened. That little movie left so many things unexplained. You realize that those things might very well be answered in a future update, right? I mean, this update was without text, it would be VERY hard to explain all of this without any words. - Quote :
- And my main point of complain:
Is it over for the characters we followed for a LONG time to a huge amount? Hussie cut a HUGE part of history out for almost all of the characters (except John and Roxy). Important parts, parts that explained so much about the characters, their actions and developments…. All gone now... I hoped for a fusion of both timeline, that the retcon would lead the bad timeline and the good timeline together to create the best timeline. But to be honest all of this looks now like simple time travel, not a huge retcon. Okay, time travel is sometimes part of a retcon but in that case Dave could have done all of this. With the way timetravel works in Homestuck, Dave could definitely NOT have done this. Dave can NOT travel into the past to change what happened, not unless he's in a doomed timeline and goes back to prevent the timeline from becoming doomed. This is NOT what happened. They didn't undoom a doomed timeline, THEY CHANGED WHAT THE UNDOOMED TIMELINE WAS GOING TO BE! This is a HUGE deal. Also, since we have seen that preretcon Vriska still exists in the dreambubble, chances are that the other preretcon people are also somewhere in the bubble. Yeah, everyone except Roxy and John are dead, but that doesn't mean they have to be gone completly, just saying.
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| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:29 pm | |
| Firstly, you said you may point out things others discussed. Did you not read this thread? Secondly, we've already seen that ghosts aren't affected by weird time shit that erases people from existence. Thirdly, Vriska never went to the Beta kids' session, and neither did Gamzee. If you mean the Alpha kids' session, then she doesn't have to steal anything, it might just be, you know, arriving in the exact same way everyone else did- via meteor. And then time travel. As for your complaint about things being 'left unexplained', Homestuck is NOT OVER. There hasn't been a SINGLE update since the flash. Give Hussie a CHANCE to give explanations first. Dave COULDN'T have done what John did, as was explained in canon. Normal time travel can't cause the Alpha timeline to change, it can only produce doomed offshoots where everyone's screwed anyway, while the retcons are free from the rules imposed upon Dave and other time players. Lastly: The idea that Vriska just solved all the problems is terrible writing, a sign of a Mary Sue (I know you complain about those in other, arguably lesser cases) and support for the theory that the entire flash is just stuff Vriska made up to make herself look better.
Edit: ah, OJ answered some of these. Some of my points are still a new contribution, and I'm in a bit of a rush so I won't delete repeats right now. | |
| | | Ralte
Posts : 260 Join date : 2013-12-19 Location : Land of Fun & Genetic improbalities
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:42 pm | |
| - Shaula wrote:
- Firstly, you said you may point out things others discussed. Did you not read this thread?
I did. That is why I wrote the foreword. - Shaula wrote:
- Secondly, we've already seen that ghosts aren't affected by weird time shit that erases people from existence.
Still, the rules about that are rather vague and if ghosts aren't affected by the rules of time PLUS people who can see and talk with ghosts can open a big can of worms. - Shaula wrote:
- Thirdly, Vriska never went to the Beta kids' session, and neither did Gamzee. If you mean the Alpha kids' session, then she doesn't have to steal anything, it might just be, you know, arriving in the exact same way everyone else did- via meteor. And then time travel.
Okay, I mistook Alpha for Beta... Again. I'm sorry about that. - Shaula wrote:
- As for your complaint about things being 'left unexplained', Homestuck is NOT OVER. There hasn't been a SINGLE update since the flash. Give Hussie a CHANCE to give explanations first.
Dave COULDN'T have done what John did, as was explained in canon. Normal time travel can't cause the Alpha timeline to change, it can only produce doomed offshoots where everyone's screwed anyway, while the retcons are free from the rules imposed upon Dave and other time players. Lastly: The idea that Vriska just solved all the problems is terrible writing, a sign of a Mary Sue (I know you complain about those in other, arguably lesser cases) and support for the theory that the entire flash is just stuff Vriska made up to make herself look better.
Edit: ah, OJ answered some of these. Some of my points are still a new contribution, and I'm in a bit of a rush so I won't delete repeats right now. And... Yes, it is sueish. Well, it looks sueish. This is the reason I hope for a good explanation WHY Vriska was able to solve some problems to make her not look like a sue. Seeing her character-development which lead to the things that happened in ACT 6 ACT 6 INTERMISSION 5. Otherwise... Yeah, it would make Vriska more of a Sue. Or Hussie was trolling all of the Vriska-Haters with it. I have to apologise a little. My post was directed by my passion and feelings, less about rational thinking. I had to got it out of my system. P.S.: I thank you for possible answers and possible explanations OverlordJ. | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:00 pm | |
| ralte if you read the thread youd know what wasnt and what was posted so u wouldnt need the preface cause u could say exactly what had already been said
as for vriska and her mary sueness
ITS HER INSTAGRAM
SOME OF THOSE SHOTS WOULD HAVE BEEN IMPOSSIBLE TO MAKE WITH A CAMERA
THE ARTISTS WHO DREW THE UPDATE WERE ASKED BY HUSSIE TO MAKE THEM LESS THEN EPIC SO IT LOOKED LIKE A DRAWING
VRISKA HAS IN THE PAST DREW HERSELF AS A BADDASS((the pirate in the blue coat with the hook hand))
SHE HAS OBVIOUSLY OVER STATED HER IMPORTANCE CAUSE THAT IS WHAT SHE FUCKING DOES
SHE HAS A MASSIVE EGO
OF COURSE SHE WILL PRETEND SHE DID EVERYTHING ON HER OWN IT FITS HER CHARACTER PERFECTLY
TAKE /EVERYTHING/ YOU SAW IN THE UPDATE WITH A GRAIN OF SALT CAUSE THE CHANCES ARE SHE MADE MOST OF IT UP OR EMBELLISHED IT CAUSE SHE THINKS SHES A MARY SUE | |
| | | TheBookwormBakery
Posts : 645 Join date : 2014-03-20 Age : 25 Location : Lost in the internet
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:28 am | |
| I honestly think parts of it are true because it makes sense for Vriska and her Spidermom-sized ego to just steamroll over all the wallowing in misery and angst that went on
But at the same time this is Vriska so a good portion of it was most likely exaggerated and/or entirely made up.
This does bring up questions of whether Vriska ships Davekat, however... | |
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