| | mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings | |
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+3OverlordJ Shaula silckenSoul 7 posters | |
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royalPawn
Posts : 1880 Join date : 2013-07-12 Age : 28 Location : B4
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:47 am | |
| aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
good update
good frikkin update
everything is great
everyone is happy, characters and readers alike
I think I can deal with the omegapause now.
:') | |
| | | silckenSoul
Posts : 4931 Join date : 2013-07-11 Age : 28 Location : MY. FUCKING. CITY.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:09 pm | |
| yeah im happy to go through the omegapause with that upd8 | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:30 pm | |
| Are you aware that the update implied if not outright stated that even if you are revived via kiss or via godtiering, you still leave behind a ghost, which, in turn, implies that all those times someone got "revived" they actually died and another version of them just took over?
It's basically the teleporter dilemma all over again. | |
| | | royalPawn
Posts : 1880 Join date : 2013-07-12 Age : 28 Location : B4
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Tue Jul 28, 2015 6:37 pm | |
| Yes I did. Or rather, I noticed something was off, especially with John on his quest bed, but I assumed I missed or forgot something until I saw your post on Nightfall.
Not really sure what to say or how I feel about that. It's kind of a hard concept to wrap your head around.
Also if they do make a teleporter like that I would probably just have myself be 'recreated' without destroying the 'original' because a) getting all my atoms destroyed sounds unpleasant no matter what happens afterward and b) why the hell wouldn't I want two (or more!) me's? | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Tue Jul 28, 2015 9:05 pm | |
| - OverlordJ wrote:
- Are you aware that the update implied if not outright stated that even if you are revived via kiss or via godtiering, you still leave behind a ghost, which, in turn, implies that all those times someone got "revived" they actually died and another version of them just took over?
Yes Currently processing the information This may take a while as it is a drastic change in the way I think of Homestuck mechanics And as for the actual teleporter situation: I would not use it. As Homestuck's shown, multiple selves don't exactly get along all the time. | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:18 am | |
| Allow me to elaborate: - The teleporter dilemma:
Basically, the way teleporters work in many shows is by taking your atoms apart and then reassembling atoms in the same way you were before elsewhere. This is done to explain how teleporters can transport you over long distances so quickly, your actual body doesn't get transported, only the information.
That however caused a problem. You could basically say that the teleporter kills you and creates a copy of you. The copy itself is unaware that it is a copy, but the original you never really reached the destination and was instead destroyed.
To make the issue with that more clear, serveral variations of the idea have been created, including the "why would the original even have to be destroyed" version, which is a very interesting alternative as it makes the "which one is the REAL you" question more obvious. It also make it more obvious why using the teleporter for "traveling" is kind of useless.
As for your question specifically, pawn, think about it like this: You have recently met a lovely person online and the two of you have fallen in love. Would you use a teleporter to go visit her? Would whether or not the original remains intact change your descision? After all, either way, YOU won't get to meet her, it'll be the newly created version of you, YOU will still be stuck whereever you are right now.
Also, besides John on the slab, we also saw a couple of people that got revived via kiss that left behind ghosts, like the decapitated Dirk for example. | |
| | | royalPawn
Posts : 1880 Join date : 2013-07-12 Age : 28 Location : B4
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:45 am | |
| ...Dang. Like a proper little sociopath I hadn't even considered relationships in this scenario. I guess my 'solution' is out of the door now. I...don't know what I'd do to be honest. This whole thing (like every proper philosophical debate) raises so many questions that just don't have an answer.
What about the afterlife for instance? Does every version of me have a soul? If so, how do sins carry over between versions? If not, why is the version of me that does (probably either the first or the last instance) more valid that the other?
If we're including the doubles things get even more complicated.
What about crimes? If one version of me commits murder, should all me's be arrested, or only some of them? You could reasonably claim all doubles created after the murder are guilty, but what about the doubles created shortly before?
If I have a debt open (financial or a personal favor) and use a teleporter to make a double, are both versions responsible to repay it? Could one demand repayment from a version that had nothing to do with it?
If someone were to start a romantic relationship with one me, could they also be friends with another version? Would it be ethical to romance multiple instances? (Let's not go into detail on that one.)
Now I'm kind of glad teleporters aren't a thing yet. Imagine reading about the teleporter dilemma five minutes after using one. | |
| | | Shaula
Posts : 3368 Join date : 2013-07-11 Location : Wouldn't you like to know.
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:46 pm | |
| - royalPawn wrote:
- What about the afterlife for instance? Does every version of me have a soul? If so, how do sins carry over between versions? If not, why is the version of me that does (probably either the first or the last instance) more valid that the other?
What if shared soul? Just a possibility. | |
| | | OverlordJ God of AFK
Posts : 3691 Join date : 2013-07-14 Age : 30 Location : Land of Cards and Games
| Subject: Re: mspa upd8 conversation place major spoiler warnings Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:48 pm | |
| You forgot one obvious example, the one that played a big role in getting the teleporter argument started: In media, the teleporters are often used to escape a dangerous situation. 1) If the original gets destroyed, doesn't that basically mean you killed yourself in order to escape death? 2) Even worse, if the original isn't destroyed, would you still chose to use the teleporter, knowing that you yourself will still face the dangerous situation (and usually death) but that an alternative version of you will think they've escaped and will live your life in your place, no matter what happens to you? And yeah, questions like "Is the new you still responsible for the things you did, seeing as they technically didn't do them but still remember having done them?" and "How long after the teleportation does the new you count as a seperate person from the old you?" - Don't read this is you are afraid of existential questions:
Did you know that since cells die and get replaced in your body all the time, most of your cells are completly different cells then you had about 7 years ago? Luckily, the same isn't true for many of your brain cells, however, atoms in cells are still exchanged, with a few exceptions. The truth seems to be that a few thngs, like the DNA in your brain cells stays the same atoms for all your life, but besides that, basically your whole body completly changes every couple years, making the you from 7 years ago almost complety different then the current you. If only those few atoms stay the same, are those the only part that is truely "you"?
And as brain injuries show, our personality is much more tied to our brain then most of us would like to admit. Would someone injured that way still be the same person or not? They (depending of the injury of course) still have the same memories and they still think of themself as the same person, but their personality has changed, sometimes drastically.
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